28 points by nnmg 2 days ago | 5 comments
aorloff 53 minutes ago
This article uses a lot of numbers to make not very strong arguments.

Lets assume that as a media planner, you have the bag of money under your desk to plausibly be discussing buying a Superbowl spot. You are already spending millions of dollars on media every month, the question is - will the Superbowl spot yield more than other channels ?

For some small set of advertisers in this decision matrix, there's also the question of whether the media production cost is worth it (hello coinbase). For the vast majority of decision makers in this position, the media production budget is already getting spent.

Lets say the spot plus extra cost is $10m to use a nice round number.

You have an expectation of how many new users or website visitors your media budget typically delivers for $10m, because you spend that regularly (monthly, quarterly, it doesn't matter, but the point is that your spend has been growing).

So the decision is really really simple. Superbowl or the other places you've been shoving $10m. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but usually its like eh compared to the other places you've been shoving your $10m, underwhelming. Which is why you see justification pieces like this.

baxtr 38 minutes ago
As someone who is somewhat familiar with marketing but no expert, I always wondered how well attribution works.

It seems all guesswork to me. User journeys and decisions are not well enough understood to say, "If I spend $1 here, it’ll return $x".

Of course, marketing people come up with all kinds of calculations to show it’s possible.

That or I’m completely ignorant.

PunchTornado 10 minutes ago
At least it's not Facebook or other online monster. When I read the piece I thought if it wasn't for superbowl that money would have went straight in the garbage.
haritha-j 46 minutes ago
I would argue the downside wasn’t capped for Ring.
AnimalMuppet 2 days ago
This has always bugged me. $7 million for a 30-second-long ad. What do they get out of it? Well, presumably, a change in peoples' concrete behaviors that is more than $7 million. They expect that (otherwise they wouldn't buy the ad in the first place).

At the same time, we're told that all the sex and violence on TV doesn't matter, because it doesn't change peoples' behavior.

So, which is it? Does what we watch on TV change our behavior, in concrete ways, or doesn't it? I suspect that it does change our behavior, that the advertisers are right. (They're betting a lot of money on their position; I'd expect them to have some basis for doing so before committing that kind of coin.) But if so, then the rest of what we watch also changes our behavior.

And, obviously, so does our social media feed...

Swizec 2 hours ago
>This has always bugged me. $7 million for a 30-second-long ad. What do they get out of it?

Super Bowl ads are about brand building. They're not conversion ads. Their direct impact is to reduce CPC (cost per conversion) on other advertising.

Say you have to pay $100 per instagram conversion. Users see your ads cold and need a lot of convicing. Most won't pay attention long enough for your ad to convert. You need them to see a lot of ads.

But after they've seen your brand plastered all over the Super Bowl (and other brand opportunities), those same instagram ads might start converting at $90 per conversion. Users see your ad and go "Oh yeah I remember that brand, lemme check this out"

The brand effect is so strong that displaying a Visa (or Mastercard or Amex) logo near checkout literally increases consumer spend. Study from 1986: https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/13/3/348/18224...

Another study from 2015 showing that credit card logos increase estimates of item value: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Effect-of-Credit-Card-...

anonymous908213 22 minutes ago
> Another study from 2015 showing that credit card logos increase estimates of item value

Notably, the abstract of the 2015 study specifically points out that the 1986 study has frequently failed to replicate, and although it finds an effect, the 2015 study has n = 28. As always with psychology studies, we would do well not to assert their purported findings as facts, as with the statement "The brand effect is so strong that displaying a Visa logo near checkout literally increases consumer spend". Psychology as a field is far too unreliable to make such assertions with confidence.

SoftTalker 3 hours ago
It's not just a single run of the ad. The same ad is run many times over, on other TV programs. It's promoted on social media. People see it and think "Oh yeah, that was a super bowl ad" and that makes it more memorable, and they associate it with the fun they had watching the game.
3eb7988a1663 3 hours ago
There is the cache for everyone involved in creating the commercial. So, nice feather in the cap for the hundreds of people who get to touch it.

I have no doubt advertising has some effect on consumer preferences. However, I am a skeptic that one more Coke Cola ad aired at the Super Bowl meaningfully changes sales relative to the billions they already spend elsewhere.

anonymous908213 2 hours ago
> I am a skeptic that one more Coke Cola ad aired at the Super Bowl meaningfully changes sales

It actually might. Coca Cola had $48b revenue last year, or in other words, 4800 millions. Spending 7 of those millions to put your product in front of 100 million people seems like a reasonable bet. If even a couple percent of those people are (sub)consciously influenced to pick up a 12-pack the next time they stop by a store when they might otherwise not have, it would likely be a profitable endeavour given the profit margins on their sugar water.

I think there's also a longer-term status play at stake. If only one of Coca Cola or Pepsi engaged in flashy advertising to this degree, it might give them a slight edge in status perception. In the long term, even an 0.1% shift in consumer preferences between Coca Cola or Pepsi would shift significantly more than 7 million in value. So if one of them engages in this, the other is obliged to follow, in a classic prisoner's dilemma. At any rate, given that 4800 millions in annual revenue translates to 13 million in sales per day, the number paid for that advertisement is a rounding error and doesn't have to move the needle very much at all to be successful.

hn_throwaway_99 1 hour ago
The irony is that this especially true for Coca Cola. They are basically an advertising company at heart. They sell flavored sugar water. For all the hype about "are you a coke person or a Pepsi person", in blind tests most people can't tell the difference between coke and generic cola. The billions they spend in marketing annually helps ensure they can sell their flavored sugar water for a lot more than Aldi sells their store brand flavored sugar water.
Dylan16807 1 hour ago
> in blind tests most people can't tell the difference between coke and generic cola

According to who?

I think most colas taste fine but it's not hard to differentiate the ones I've had.

hn_throwaway_99 17 minutes ago
> According to who?

According to researchers who actually ran blinded tests: https://daily.jstor.org/the-coca-cola-wars-can-anybody-reall...

What's funny is kind of the reverse is also true: when people were given the exact same cola but one was labeled Coke and the other Pepsi, not only did they say they preferred Coke, but fMRI brain scans should more prefrontal cortex activation for the Coke as well: https://medium.com/@marketingoal/the-pepsi-vs-cola-cola-expe... . That's the power of branding.

cyberax 1 hour ago
I don't know, I can distinguish between Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola easily. I prefer Diet Coke, FWIW.

I also now have a bottle of Lab Cola from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDkH3EbWTYc and it _is_ indistinguishable from regular Coca-Cola to me. So it might be plausible in case of a deliberate Coca-Cola knock-off?

2Gkashmiri 1 hour ago
I also "can" and so can my siblings but I actuallly stopped drinking sugar water but my siblings don't so they are "passionate" about coke and "hate" Pepsi for some reason. I don't understand
ycombinatrix 2 hours ago
Sorry, I didn't realize we weren't supposed to be having sex.
shoxidizer 2 hours ago
And of course the influencing on media networks doesn't stop at the 30 second slot when the money is spent by the million ;)
babypuncher 1 hour ago
Ads are designed to change our behavior.
senectus1 3 hours ago
approx 300 million eyeballs.
fairity 2 hours ago
The author keeps saying, over and over, that the reason this is a good bet is because "the downside is capped and the upside is asymmetric" as if that's some ground-breaking realization.

Sorry, but obviously the downside is capped. The downside of virtually any marketing investment is capped at the cost of the media buy...And, the upside being "asymmetric" isn't some saving grace. What matters is the likelihood that you actually realize that asymmetric upside. And, nowhere in the article does he talk about Ro's estimated success likelihoods or actual outcomes.

In short, he's basically saying:

- I made a bet

- It costs me something ("capped downside")

- There's a potential payout ("asymmetric upside")

- I have no idea whether this is positive expected value

hvb2 52 minutes ago
The downside isn't really capped as in most cases there's a big dev effort to prep for an event like that. Plus a lot of spend on the day of the event to deal with the surge. This can easily be in the millions as well, in direct cost as well as in opportunity cost
hn_throwaway_99 1 hour ago
This is also kinda wrong because the downside can be a lot more than your marketing spend if people really hate your ad. Just look what happened when Budweiser decided to send a personalized Bud Light can to a transgender person. For the Superbowl specifically, I can't imagine the "Search Party" ad helped Amazon sell more Rings.
Ekaros 15 minutes ago
Or Gillette. Or Jaguar. Wrong sort of advertising can provably destroy your brand image among your consumers. Social media helps to amplify things in both directions. So you really need to know your audience's current mindset. Or wrong move could lead to losing lot more than just any money and manpower spend on the ad.
upmind 2 hours ago
I find the US commercialisation and dopamine inducing activities quite annoying. Compared to European sports, it's so different.
rconti 1 hour ago
Well, we used to at least not have to suffer through gambling ads...