111 points by bearsyankees 14 hours ago | 13 comments
ISL 7 hours ago
Avelo assists ICE daily with deporting people from the United States:

https://bsky.app/profile/jjindc.bsky.social/search?q=avelo

Scoundreller 55 minutes ago
> Search is currently unavailable when logged out

Can you hook us up with some deep links?

mattmaroon 4 hours ago
Can’t load that but don’t they all? I can’t imagine any airline telling the federal government no.
3 hours ago
apical_dendrite 2 hours ago
I think Avelo is the only airline that participates. The rest are charter companies.
dogemaster2032 3 hours ago
[flagged]
apical_dendrite 2 hours ago
Enjoy your trip to Tweed New Haven Airport.
dogemaster2032 1 hour ago
[dead]
jbergler 12 hours ago
The 6 hour claim is interesting, but I highly doubt Avelo (or any airline) would handle 100k requests/sec

If we consider that the real major's move about 400k-500k passengers/day, let's be really optimistic and say that they check their booking 6 times a day for the week before they fly. That's around 250 requests/sec.

Anyone know about the consumer facing tech stacks at airlines these days? Seems unlikely that they'd have databases that would auto scale 400x...

kiklion 11 hours ago
I doubt their API would handle 100k requests per second. That math was roughly indictive of what the cost to send 100k requests per second would look like. He did mention that that was assuming the target didn't have rate limiting, either intentional or just pure limits of the hardware.
bronco21016 5 hours ago
Cloud API gateway providers advertise ~10,000 rps.

I think more likely the API would be behind some kind of bot protection that would shut this down before any kind of technical rate limit is reached.

mtlynch 12 hours ago
>The Avelo team was responsive, professional, and took the findings seriously throughout the disclosure process. They acknowledged the severity, worked quickly to remediate the issues, and maintained clear communication. This is a model example of how organizations should handle security disclosures.

Sounds like no bug bounty?

It's great if OP is happy with the outcome, but it's so infuriating that companies are allowed to leak everyone's data with zero accountability and rely on the kindness of security researchers to do free work to notify them.

I wish there was a law that assigned a dollar value to different types of PII leaks and fined the organization that amount with some percentage going to the whistleblower. So a security researcher could approach a vendor and say, "Hi! I discovered vulnerabilities in your system that would result in a $500k fine for you. For $400k, I'll disclose it to you privately, or you can turn me down and I'll receive $250k from your fines."

edent 12 hours ago
> I wish there was a law that assigned a dollar value to different types of PII leaks

There is. It is called GDPR.

Plenty of companies have been fined for leaks like this.

Some countries also have whistleblower bounties but, as you might expect, there are some perverse incentives there.

mtlynch 12 hours ago
Yeah, as an American, I'm jealous of many aspects of GDPR. I really appreciate you blogging / tooting about experiences protecting your rights under GDPR. I wish we had 1/10th of the consumer privacy protections you have.

How does security research like this work out in practice, in the EU?

I read a lot of vulnerability writeups like this and don't recall seeing any where the author is European and gets a better outcome. Are security researchers actually compensated for this type of work in the EU?

advisedwang 9 hours ago
The GDPR (in art 32) only requires that "the controller and the processor shall implement appropriate technical and organisational measures to ensure a level of security appropriate to the risk". I expect it's quite common for a company to get hacked even if they meet that level. I think the parent comment was imagining that any leak is automatically fined, regardless of whether the company had met some security requirement.
billy99k 11 hours ago
The GPDR makes it so small companies need to hire expensive lawyers to be compliant (and you still don't know for sure, based on the laws)

How about fining individual developers with poor coding practices?

matthewmacleod 9 hours ago
It does not mean this.
bossyTeacher 11 hours ago
> it's so infuriating that companies are allowed to leak everyone's data with zero accountability and rely on the kindness of security researchers to do free work to notify them.

This is a matter for lawmakers and law enforcement. Campaign for it. Nothing will change otherwise

didgetmaster 11 hours ago
The lack of needing the last name might have allowed a hacker to brute force the whole list; but it seems that even with a last name, it could expose a lot of PII. Just pass codes along with popular last names (Smith, Jones, Nelson, etc.) and it seems like it could spit out a bunch of reservations.
morpheuskafka 2 hours ago
Yes, it's also an issue when someone posts their bag tag/boarding pass/booking email online.

But that's the "industry standard" for checking a reservation online. Requiring airline login doesn't work because of tickets issued by travel agents or other airlines.

miki123211 10 hours ago
I'd go for wang, Li and Zhang instead, maybe also Patel and Nguyen. Asian countries have a much more skewed surname distribution.
RealSoyboyRoy 1 hour ago
> I immediately disclosed this to the Avelo team. They were responsive, professional, and took the findings seriously, patching the issues promptly.

(emphasis my own)

Sorry but I strongly disagree with this phrasing. This is a company "serving over 6 million customers since its 2021 launch" (from Google) that took four weeks to patch an embarrassing security flaw, after being handed all the details on a silver platter.

Imagine a food chain serving a million meals a year was revealed to be storing their food products in unsanitary conditions, and it took them a full month to correct this. That story would make national headlines, not to mention they could get promptly shut down by any competent health ministry.

I think this attitude mostly reveals how complacent we've become about these """incidents""": we just expect this to happen, everywhere and all the time, then we just shrug and say "they fixed it within a month, how responsible of them".

miki123211 10 hours ago
Do we know what GDS Avelo is using? In other GDSes, is the confirmation code always sufficient to fully identify a booking? I was under the impression that PRLs could be re-used as long as the passenger surname was different.

The space of all possible PRLs is about 2 billion, I can imagine a really big Airline moving that many passengers.

rootsudo 10 hours ago
They use a service of Sabre but not Sabre GDS. it’s called Radixx.

Yes in other GDS, it can be enough to identify a full booking. That’s why airlines prefer ticket or coupon number since the first two digits are the airline ticket stock / identifier and then fare codes, etc

The requiring last name, and more info is more or less security since any pss system can query the airline first for that combination before requiring more info to return a match.

lxgr 9 hours ago
6 alphanumeric, case insensitive characters only allow for about 2 billion unique combinations. I’d have guessed there were more reservations made than that?

Or are PNR locators recycled after a while?

bleepblap 8 hours ago
Yes, I've got in my drawer two physical boarding passes with the same PNR
aardvark179 9 hours ago
Confirmation codes are not sufficient on their own, they cycle through them relatively quickly so they have to be combined with things like the passengers family name to actually identify the booking.
commandlinefan 11 hours ago
> They were responsive, professional, and took the findings seriously, patching the issues promptly.

The "issue" is that they're returning the entire PNR dataset to the front-end in the first place. He doesn't detail how they fixed it, but there's no reason in the world that this entire dataset should be dumped into Javascript. I got into pretty heated arguments with folks about this at Travelocity and this shit is exactly why I was so adamant.

CtrlAltNerd 12 hours ago
Great work, very impressive find.
dboreham 10 hours ago
Always consider rate limiting if you deploy a public endpoint. Always require authentication to perform resource-consuming and/or privacy leaking requests. (Requiring authentication makes rate limiting more practical since even a distributed attacker would need many credentials, which they probably don't have).
mattmaroon 13 hours ago
Major? Avelo?
s1mon 8 hours ago
Agreed. I read the headline as "... US Airlines' ..." not "... US Airline's ..." and it seemed much more concerning. Instead it's a single airline I've never heard of. Looking them up, they are more established than I might have guessed (started as Casino Express Airlines 38 years ago, but current incarnation is only 4 years old), but also pretty small - roughly 1/100 the staff and 1/50 the fleet of United.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avelo_Airlines

mattmaroon 4 hours ago
Ha I guess I flew them in a past incarnation but didn’t know that.
12 hours ago
klysm 13 hours ago
Annoying sensationalist writing, but good find!
Nextgrid 13 hours ago
This is about a non-rate-limited endpoint providing ticket data given a booking code only (and not last name as it's usually the case), which makes it feasible to bruteforce the entire search space.

(unfortunately, I feel like AI was overused in authoring the writeup)

filearts 12 hours ago
Is it really AI slop if someone leverages AI to improve / transform their novel experiences and ideas into a rendition that they prefer?

I'm not suggesting whether or not the article is AI assisted. I'm wondering if the ease of calling someone's work "AI slop" is a step along the slippery slope towards trivializing this sort of drive-by hostility that can be toxic in a community.

Nextgrid 12 hours ago
You are right about the toxicity, I will edit my comment.

There's a difference between leveraging AI to proofread or improve parts of their writing and this - I feel like AI was overused here; gave the whole article that distinctive smell and significantly reduced its information density.

dado3212 13 hours ago
What makes you say that? This didn't read like AI slop to me.
Nextgrid 13 hours ago
Overuse of bulleted lists, unnecessary sensationalism, sentences like "The requests flew. There was no WAF, no IP blocking, no CAPTCHA." and so on. It reeks of someone pasting some notes into a chat prompt and asking it to spruce it up for publication.
PKop 13 hours ago
Pattern recognition skill issue then. It did to me.

"The fallout"

This flaw was critical.

And other vibes. You know it when you see it, though it may be hard to define.

mmooss 12 hours ago
> You know it when you see it

How do you know your perception is accurate? One of humanity's biggest weaknesses is trusting that kind of response.

PKop 11 hours ago
Maybe just try having confidence in yourself. Trust your instincts. I'm not going to impugn my own abilities based on some purported flaw in an abstract amorphous blog called "humanity", whatever that is. A lot of individuals of distinction have many characteristics better than the average, why wouldn't I trust myself more than other people?

Pattern recognition is a many millions of years evolved ability best exemplified in the "human" species by the way, so I basically disagree with your whole premise anyways.

tempsaasexample 5 hours ago
The Brown killer was basically caught by a homeless man getting a bad vehicle about the future shooter. So I agree, trusting your gut is definitely a thing.
mmooss 4 hours ago
People believe in witchcraft and lots of other things - including many horrible prejudices - just as confidently as you. There's a reason any scholarship, courts, medicine, and any other serious endeavors require objective evidence.

Imagine that - doctors, who have seen everything, have years of study, treat all those people, still require objective evidence. Anyone in IT looks for objective evidence - timing, stepping through code, etc.

Confidence doesn't correlate well with accuracy; in fact the more someone expresses your kind of confidence, the less I rely on them at all.

What if you wrongfully accuse someone? Does that matter? Are you responsible for the consequences of what you do?

PKop 3 hours ago
You turn your brain off and outsource your thinking to other people, because you're incapable of perceiving reality for yourself, is what you're telling me.

Of course everyone is responsible for their accuracy and their errors, doesn't mean it's impossible to infer things based on observation experience and intuition. This is an evolved ability, but I do agree some people are better than others like most things.

You're conflating a lot of things. Many prejudices are accurate and prudent, which craft is stupid, but so what? I'm not going to deny my perception on something that's correct just because some other idiot believes in magic; non sequitur.

verall 7 hours ago
It's definitely AI dude
mmooss 4 hours ago
Have you ever tested your accuracy? I think there are tests out there.
sallveburrpi 12 hours ago
What is the AI slop version of “This looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.”

?

tverbeure 12 hours ago
> This incident is a stark reminder

A stark reminder is a stark reminder about the existence of AI slop. You see the phrase a lot in social media comment spam.

delfinom 13 hours ago
There's an emdash, no human being uses emdashes.
dboreham 13 hours ago
Er...I've been using em—dashes since I read Knuth in the 1980s.
deathanatos 12 hours ago
There are dozens of us.

Which really makes me wonder how we ended up training an AI…

garyfirestorm 12 hours ago
deathanatos 12 hours ago
(a.) those graphs are a crime against data viz.

(b.) they practically demonstrate the point: while, yes, AI uses em-dashes, the entire corpus of em-dashes is still largely human, too, so using that as a sole signal is going to have a pretty high false positive rate.

Aloha 12 hours ago
not only that, word (and others) will convert a dash into an em-dash in text.
throw-12-16 13 hours ago
[flagged]
dxdm 11 hours ago
no u